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I very much liked Alice Bailey. Do you usually consider things from an esoteric persperctive when doing readings? I am now starting studying the rays and correlations with the planets and signs. Did Alice Bailey used sideral or tropical astrology? What did he advice? I am currently seeing the fantastic world that lies between these two systems!

It seems both are real, and this is just part of the incredible illusion of our reality and the zodiac circle! Hi robyn - Yes, thoughtforms do acquire substance if we are clear and persistent. That's why it's very important to be clear about what we're saying and why!

Hi irpsit - The "etheric" plane is actually a combo of the higher subplanes of the physical. Yes to the subplanes of the mental, as well as the Buddhic being the plane of true Intuition, since it's the plane of Soul and Heart.

I don't really read any channeled material except Alice Bailey and Helena Roerich, so I'm not familiar with the one you cite. I tend to go with "source material," rather than anything of recent vintage. In the wisdom tradition I know, Love-Wisdom is the quality of the 2nd Ray.

I believe egoic beings are more-or-less centered in the kama manas, or desire mind. Those who aspire are dealing with identifying with the Higher Mind, or Higher Ego, though are still not necessarily under "Soul control," as we put it, though occasionally that beams through.

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Of course, words fail to adequately describe what are states beyond words. I have my own technique for identifying an individual's physical ray, emotional ray, mental ray, personality ray, group ray, and so forth.

There has been some debate about whether to use Tropical or Sidereal, with most leaning toward Sidereal. That said, I put NO faith in Sidereal, for several valid reasons. I believe it's as inaccurate from a constellational angle as Tropical, though some astrologers, such as the great Cyril Fagan, could do some pretty amazing stuff with Sidereal.

I just don't accept it as more accurate than Tropical. Robert June 13, at I hope this is Ok to do,to promote something,but it is so on topic! This is based on the Bailey approach to esoteric astrology, as a means to see the path of the Soul.

They relate the planets to the rays, and have an esoteric level of rulership of the signs. I am not well versed in all this, being pretty much an astrolgical beginner, but have seen this work applied to help people understand their spiritual path, and spiritual challenges and life lessons. It takes intuition to know what level to read for someone though, mundane vs.

Tamara June 13, at Hi Tamara - Glad to hear some are furthering the work of the Tibetan, since there is a lot to digest in the thousands of pages of His work. Something you said raises a key issue in my experience. While intuition can be useful in approaching charts, I believe one should approach Astrology, the celestial science, with utmost reverence for its analytical approach to "all that is. When we master these, then we can allow Intuition to work its magic.

Those who know me know I have my own approach to what I believe is "spiritual" in a chart. I've studied a lot of source material, as well as derivative works, both astrological and spiritual. I believe that any who are interested in such topics should also read the original Alice Bailey text of Danske spil casino bonuskode 2018 trucks of sema 2018 exhibitor Astrology.

She and her Master were appealing to certain aptitudes. This is not the first or even second thing you want to study if you want to study such things, especially if you're not a professional astrologer. I've always felt that we must reference the source, digesting it to our ability, before we Nye casino sidereal astrology vs tropical astrology mandala art synthesize other material as otherwise we don't really know what the derivative is referencing. Without studying the source, we take on the assumptions of the derivative without knowing we're doing that.

And of course, I'll try to find the book you recommend. It's a worthy work for anyone to take on, since interpreting the Tibetan's work is a fairly daunting task. Aum Mani Padme Hum. Is Astrology really a 3rd Ray activity? Mine feels like 2nd Ray. Do you know of simple activities or exercises or meditations where one could uncover these Rays, Physical, Personality, Soul and Spirit ones?

On racial, national Rays its much more easy to see. About the emotional and mental ones, I think I could with some meditation discover those quite easily. Thanks much for all the input until now. I am still using Tropical but starting to work with Sideral.

I haven't check DK position on this, but from other channeled sources, group spirit Ra states both are correct, that one is horizontal approach, the other Sideral vertical.

One could approach more to the masculine or personality-liked side Tropicalthe other to feminine, more soul-based one Sideral. But, both are and can be considered as working.

Therefore, I tend to start approaching things this way, a very complex way by the way. I use mostly tropical for everyone but to me and my close ones I am attempting this complex approach. And also finding the Rays. Hi irpsit - That was me who stated the 3rd Ray nature of Astrology. The problem with these comments is that the name is posted below the comment, but it appears above the next one, making it seem like the answer is the statement.

More Mercury crashing into retrograde! That said, yes, Astrology is the embodiment of the 3rd Ray, encompassing the 4, 5, 6, and 7th Ray energetics, synthesizing them into the craft. Issa Jesu is said to be the Master of the Devotional 6th Ray, whereas DK works with Hilarion in taking care of advanced students in various 5th Ray Knowledge disciplines.

Of course, it may not be your main personality Ray, but rather one of the three with a temporary emphasis at this time in your life depending on your present personality work. There is no activity on Earth that is only a single Ray, since we are learning how to master all the energies, just different ones at different times.

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All outer activities are amalgams of at least three Rays which are the subrays of the synthesized work, whatever it is. That's why I don't believe studying Esoteric Astrology is useful for most, since many take their Rays as static energies rather than fluid lessons in realization, application, and utilization. As for meditations to uncover one's Rays, yes, but that is a science in itself. For example some astrologers see astrology as describing 'the mind stuff which shapes and informs all of life and consciousness' Harvey and Harvey,p.

Others see consciousness as just one more thing shown by the birth chart; for example the quintile aspect 'introduces a new dimension of consciousness' so you 'experience subtleties of thought transcending the usual', while Jupiter leads to 'expansions of consciousness' Moore and Douglas,pp. Precisely what all this means is hard to say, for such talk raises more questions than it answers.

Our best clue concerning consciousness comes from horary astrology, where a client's question is said to be answered in the birth chart calculated for when the astrologer receives the question. Ordinary astrology sees the birth chart as existing independently of the astrologer, whereas an horary birth chart does not exist until the astrologer becomes involved by receiving the question. Some astrologers such as Jeff Mayo find it is:.

Horary astrology makes a mockery of a serious subject p. But for British astrologer Geoffrey Corneliusa teacher and practitioner of divinatory astrology, the actual involvement of the astrologer, as opposed to being a mere interpreter, suggests that astrological 'connections' are less a gift of nature and more a product of the astrologer's mind; that is, of consciousness.

In this 'all in the mind' view of astrology there is nothing actually 'out there' that involves planets. Instead what matters is the mental state of the astrologer. The technique used for reading the chart is then merely a ritual that leads to the right mental Nye casino sidereal astrology vs tropical astrology mandala art. Just as astrologers differ, so will techniques, but all techniques will necessarily work no matter how much they may seem to disagree.

British astrologer Charles Harvey points out that such a view has the advantage of elevating the internal confusions of astrology above criticism, and the disadvantage of denying any way for astrology to be improved over, say, tea-leaf reading, or to have been discovered in the first place. He argues that there can be a psi component to astrology a point most astrologers would agree with, see laterbut not to the extent claimed by Cornelius, simply because some computer-generated chart readings 'can prove remarkably to the point' p.

Nevertheless, despite the disagreement, such a view provides a clue too good to De bedste casino siderophores quizlet flashcards. To see how astrology might be nothing more than the right mental state, we can look at shamanism.

Parallels with shamanism To shamans or medicine men, purportedly obtaining information from the spirit world to benefit their community, everything provides knowledge about everything else, but only via symbols that have to be Casinoer paa nettet hivemc forums hawaii to make sense. The image-schemas [symbol systems] of shamanic practitioners were especially adept when prediction was demanded.

Game needed to be located, weather patterns needed to be forecast, enemy movements needed to be anticipated, Astrologers work in a similar world of symbolism and 'image-schemas', where everything interacts with everything else and has to be interpreted to make sense.

In place of the frenzied dancing, drumming, and mushroom-eating used by shamans to achieve their 'shamanic consciousness', there is concentration on the birth chart and its highly complex symbolism based on analogy, mythology, numerology, sympathy, and ancient ideas generally, with each symbol being applicable at different levels such as inner, outer, and physical, which in turn will depend on age, maturity, gender and so on. The complexity of the birth chart is thus almost without limit, which is why the best readings are said to require the aid of psi to sort out the confusion.

For many astrologers a chart reading involves no more than ordinary concentration, so 'shamanic consciousness' hardly applies to them. But for others it is different. Consider what American clinical psychologist Ralph Metznera former editor of Psychedelic Reviewsays in his book Maps of Consciousness.

For six years he explored 'the extraordinary inner worlds opened up for me by the psychedelics' these worlds are similar to shamanic experiencesafter which he began to see how astrology and other divinatory systems 'were originally intended to be used as maps for the path of the evolutionary development of consciousness' p. He is careful to distinguish between a model simulates how you behave and a map try it and see how you feel p. More to the point:. I know of Nye casino sidereal astrology vs tropical astrology mandala art clairvoyant astrologer who simply looks at the actual horoscope diagram [birth chart] and then begins to 'see' the inner life, the thought forms, and emotional patterns of her client, almost as if she were gazing into a crystal ball p.

Consider also how American astrologer Jane Evans describes reading the birth chart as 'a ritual carrying a magic dimension', with clear shamanic parallels:. When that participation is achieved there is a breakthrough. The astrologer can be taken Like a lightning flash that reveals a whole landscape formerly in darkness, insight suddenly illuminates the horoscope giving pattern and meaning to what was hitherto just a collection of symbols A door opens to communication with the Inner Self, whether your own or that of the person whose horoscope is being studied p.

Much the same applies to this description of reading the birth chart by British astrologer Rose Elliot First of all, I like to absorb the chart completely; like to look at it, not analysing it but allowing the different factors to sink into my subconscious.

Which zodiac tropical or sidereal?

When the time comes actually to interpret the chart, I concentrate on the centre of the chart, which appears as a kind of golden orb; concentrating on this point in the chart, I feel as if I am inside the chart, standing in the centre, with all the planetary forces around the chart playing on me like the rays of the sun At a certain point the golden orb I have described opens out, and I find myself standing in a sort of corridor.

This corridor represents time I can look back down this corridor into the past, and forward to the future. As I do so, certain 'rooms' which open off the corridor, become lit up and I look into them and see a picture, like a cinema These always have a bearing on the chart pp. Elliot would not be your usual everyday astrologer. Her experiences could of course arise not from shamanic ecstasy but merely from a fantasy-prone personality one that fantasizes vividly during much of waking life.

But proneness to fantasy seems to be an essential ingredient of shamanism Krippner,p. The point is, both groups shamans and astrologers relate consciousness to a transcendent reality that, if true or even partly true, might require a re-assessment of present biological theories of consciousness. Just as shamanism can be seen as relevant to consciousness, so might astrology, especially as our principal concern here is validity, which seems to be rarely considered in shamanic studies.

Furthermore, Freeman and Nunezp. So astrology might lead us to useful pre-split insights.

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At which point we move on to consider psi. Astrology and psi The parapsychologist John Beloff argues that the existence of psi suggests that minds can 'extract information from objects other than its own brain'. Similarly, whether the heavens actually correlate with human behaviour, or are merely a means of attaining the right mental state, as variously claimed by astrologers, it suggests that minds might be affected by things other than brains and vice versa.

It might also be evidence for paranormal happenings that might be related to psi. As a bonus, astrology brings advantages shared with parapsychology -- testability at least in principlepromise Beste online casino deutschland map history world new knowledge, and according to astrologers positive results.

Many methodological and conceptual problems are common to both, for example compare the psi review articles and commentaries in Behavioural and Brain Sciences with their astrological equivalent in Correlation The bonus would be even better if astrologers had genuine psychic ability, which they see as a gift synonymous with intuition that mysteriously pops things into their minds.

They know without knowing how they know and without knowing that they could very well be wrong. However, only psychic ability, if it exists, is without a scientific explanation, whereas intuition may be due to the unconscious processing of previous experience Eysenck,pp.

But here the distinction is less important than establishing whether something unusual is happening. Do astrologers have psychic ability? Sigmund Freud was a corresponding member of the Society for Psychical Research from until his death in In he told how a patient of his had given a birth date to a renowned lady astrologer in Munich, who predicted that after a few months the person would die of crab or oyster poisoning.

In fact the prediction was wrong, although the person had almost died of crab poisoning at the same time a year earlier which might be unremarkable if the person often ate crabs. As shown by the following quote, Freud says he doubts whether astrology could discover anything as specific as crab poisoning:. Let us not forget how many people are born on the same day. Is it conceivable that On the other hand, her client did possess this information. The occurrence can be fully explained if we are willing to assume that Fifty years later much the same view was put forward by psychic researcher Alan Vaughanp.

Most astrologers would not disagree with this view. A chart is so complex that American astrologer Doris Chase Doanep. According to Moore and Douglasp. Using the horoscope as a psychometric tool, they may be spectacularly successful in describing the specific details of a person's life'. A survey of astrologers, mostly American, found that over half claimed to use psychic ability in their chart readings Moore,p.

Like Freud, astrologer Dal Lee concludes that astrological meanings are too broad to allow specific statements unless some ESP faculty is used, and that some astrologers have ESP at least some of the time, often getting a perfect hit but hardly knowing where it comes from. Let us look more closely. Hidden persuaders Examples of what seem to be perfect hits are seeing abuse at age thirteen, seeing the location of a lost shawl in a French restaurant Phillipson,pp.

Such hits lead to the claim that astrologers proudly and repeatedly make, that astrology is unassailable because it is based on experience, which echoes our opening quote from Charles Carter. But the claim is untenable because astrologers are generally unaware of the many hidden persuaders that can make them see hits where none exist Dean, Mather and Kelly,pp.

Examples are the Barnum effect reading specifics into generalitiescognitive dissonance seeing what you believecold reading let body language be your guidenonfalsifiability nothing can count against your ideaand operant conditioning heads you win, tails is irrelevant. There are many Mr green live casino. Technically these hidden persuaders can be described as 'statistical artifacts and inferential biases'.

When hidden persuaders are prevented, the hits generally disappear, as for an American astrologer who publicly challenged skeptics to test his predictions of appearance Ianna and Tolbert,a French astrologer who claimed to diagnose medical conditions Gauquelin,and when guessing sun signs was found to depend on cue leakage Dean, Such a situation will be familiar to any investigator of paranormal claims. The same hidden persuaders explain how phrenology, once more popular and far more influential than astrology is today, could be accepted as completely valid even though it is now known to be completely invalid Dean, The point is, hidden persuaders are generally not noticed yet they can be totally compelling.

For example Aphek and Tobinin a survey of fortune-telling techniques, cite a case where a young lady PhD in psychology was amazed when an astrologer told her things that the astrologer 'could not possibly De bedste casino siderosis diseased productions known'. But on analysing the tape recording she realised that 'in every case she had herself supplied the cues that enabled the seer to proceed' p.

Interestingly, it is not uncommon for astrologers to make a seemingly accurate reading for a client only to discover later that it was based on the wrong birth chart. For example one British astrologer notes how it has 'happened to a lot of astrologers. Some of the best readings have been with wrong charts'.

But he ignores the logical conclusion that astrology is dominated by hidden persuaders, so any chart will doadding only: The power of hidden persuaders to lead us astray is illustrated by American psychologist Ray Hymanp. He was highly praised for his accuracy, even on specific matters such as health, and became a staunch believer.

But when he gave readings that were the opposite of what the palm indicated, his accuracy was as highly praised as before. Dean found the same for reversed birth chart readings. Clearly no sensible person will consider a paranormal explanation of astrology and palmistry hits unless hidden persuaders have been eliminated. For more on how seers capitalise on hidden persuaders see Hyman and Steiner Of course this does not deny the possibility that astrologers could have genuine psychic ability.

Indeed, most astrologers aggressively ignore such problems in favour of seeing astrology less as a set of rules and more as something akin to divination, where 'Its reliability depends on the quality of the astrologer's intuition' Phillipson,p. Some even see astrology as a link to the spirit world, a link we now explore. Help from spirit guides Some astrologers claim they are helped by spirit guides, for example they will feel somehow 'directed' to focus on particular chart factors, or something in a birth chart will suddenly jump out at them.

American astrologer Gary Keen describes the effect of such guidance on the astrologer:. He knows he has stepped across a divide that separates the material from the mental or unknown [spirit] world He will attempt to develop some form of association with this unseen magical power that resides within, around and above the horoscope he holds in his hand pp.

Such effects explain why some astrologers see the birth chart as a mandala or magical diagram, a means to contact spirit powers that guide and direct a person. Note again the Nye casino sidereal astrology vs tropical astrology mandala art with shamanism, where 'practitioners deliberately alter or heighten their conscious awareness to enter the so-called "spirit world", accessing material that they use to help and to heal members of the social group that has acknowledged their shamanic status' Krippner,p.

Indeed, American astrologer Barbara Clow emphasises the astrologer's 'shamanistic duty' to place a client in contact with spirit forces, thus making the chart 'a unified energy field of consciousness' p. According to Burgoynep. Of nine randomly-selected lecturers at a major American astrology convention inseven claimed to have spirit guides or were spiritists, and another was involved with spiritistic literature Ankerberg and Weldon,p.

Some astrology books have purportedly been dictated by spirit guides, and some have been dedicated to spirit guides, for example Joan Hodgson's Reincarnation Through the Zodiac is dedicated 'with deep love and gratitude' to her spirit guide White Eagle.

When the seer Edgar Cayce was asked if it was proper to study astrology, his spirit guide answered 'When studied aright, very, very, very much so' Gammon,p.

Even John Addey, the leading British astrologer and empirical investigator of his time, was of the view that planets are 'spiritual existences or substances and their influence is universal' Addey,p. Having a spirit guide would seem to be a private matter not readily disclosed, like tax evasion, so that estimating the proportion of astrologers with spirit guides is a risky business.

In our experience it is not high. Nevertheless many examples of such astrologers are given by Ankerberg and WeldonNye casino sidereal astrology vs tropical astrology mandala art. In short, such views hold that spirits are the real basis of astrology, and that planetary 'energies' are really spirit energies, whatever that means.

Spirits might of course Nye casino sidereal astrology vs tropical astrology mandala art psi in disguise, which would make them open to the same objections, for example the absence of criteria for deciding whether psi is present or absent Alcock, and the severe incompatibility of psi with the findings of neuroscience Beyerstein, ; Kirkland, In effect they replace one mystery with another and thus make the situation worse for astrology rather than better.

Recap We have seen how various astrologers claim that consciousness, psi, and spirit guides are relevant to astrology. In general they provide no evidence for such claims, only speculation, and are unaware that their claims are confounded by hidden persuaders and fantasy-prone personality.

Nevertheless let us accept that astrologers may use some sort of intuition or psychic ability when reading a birth chart. Also, because the incidence of astrologers and serious students of astrology is roughly 1 in 10, of the general population Dean, Mather and Kelly,p.

But before we look at the empirical evidence, we must ask why astrology has been generally neglected by psi researchers, even those who do not confuse astrology with sun signs. Why has astrology been neglected Warrior casino scene last jedi dvd screener psi researchers?

The answer seems simple enough. Astrology is based on the untenable Principle of Correspondences see belowso it is not worth the bother. It is like believing in fairies. There is also the question of evidence. In his presidential address to the Society for Psychical Research, in the days before the advent of sun signs, Dr Walter Franklin Prince put it this way:. I myself, at the risk of appearing ridiculous even to my colleagues, have for fourteen years held my archives open for astrological evidence, and have collected many exhibits of what was offered as evidence by supposed experts.

I do not think that any psychical researcher in forty-eight years [since the SPR began in ] has given attention to Casinoer paa nettetal nwacc blackboard learn claims of astrology and has not definitely cast the pretended science on the dust heap Prince,p.

Prince was quite properly ignoring unsupported claims in favour of empirical research. To him the evidence of which he had 'collected many exhibits' was clearly negative. More recently the same emphasis on empirical research has been made by the parapsychologist Carl Sargentbut with a new twist:.

Almost nothing can be concluded from this [present accumulation of empirical] research, since independent replications with standardized procedures are wholly Nye casino sidereal astrology vs tropical astrology mandala art. For a sound research programme which does justice to the complex and dynamic interplay of horoscope factors which traditional astrologers emphasize, it would be necessary At present such a research programme has not been implemented p.

In other words the neglect of astrology by psi researchers might or might not be justified, but the appropriate tests had not been made. That was in the early s. Today, thanks to advances in research, that situation no longer applies. The Principle of Correspondencesonce widely accepted, was discredited after the seventeenth century. It involves argument by analogy, the assumption that things similar in some respects are also similar in other respects.

Thus the changeable Moon indicates a changeable person, the number four and the fourth planet have the same qualities, and Aries indicates ramlike impulsivity. Such analogies have great flexibility, which astrologers see as a strength, for example the astrological element Water might relate to ambergris, breasts, crabs, fluctuation, gardens, ink, insecurity, the Moon, music, navigation, Neptune, pearls, poetry, pumpkins, sensitivity, tridents and turquoise, to mention only a few.

But the Principle is untenable. The height of John Smith tells us nothing about the height of John Brown. No longer do we believe with Aristotle that death can occur only at low tide.

No longer do midwives open the door to ease a painful labour. Nor do we have any immediate way of choosing between opposing correspondences. The Moon was male to the Babylonians but female to the Greeks. No wonder the Principle of Correspondences survives in Western education only as an example of fallacious reasoning packed with hidden persuaders.

We should not confuse the Principle of Correspondences with the physical analogies so useful in science, as when the analogy between the behaviour of light and the behaviour of waves led to the discovery of diffraction and other optical phenomena. But confusing them is easy because the first is experienced from infancy whereas physical analogies are not.

To the child it may be the roundness of the pebble that makes it sink, or the yellowness of the Moon that stops it falling. In effect the Principle of Correspondences is something we have to unlearn in order to make sense of the world, which explains its appeal -- it encourages us to do what in childhood came naturally, like believing in Santa Claus. Remnants can survive in subtle ways. If you visit the Middle East, should you be more worried about dying in a terrorist attack than about dying generally?

Is social collapse due to drug barons more likely than social collapse generally? Most people answer yes to both. But the second alternative includes the first, so the correct answer is no. The addition of a plausible correspondence has led our reasoning astray. Other remnants are less subtle, as when red hair is considered hot-tempered, or when dice are rolled vigorously to coax a high number, or when Eastern beliefs threaten rhinos with extinction, see Zusne and JonesGilovitch and Savitsky The revolution in astrological research Very few empirical studies of astrology existed before However, by there were more than one hundred studies in astrology journals and psychology journals, most of them little known.

So Alan Vaughanp. Today the number of empirical studies exceeds five hundred. Nor will you find them in most astrology books. Even for astrologers, 'Anyone used to reading books on or around our subject must have a mind which positively aches with the effort of keeping it open: For comprehensive critical surveys of astrology, its problems, and associated scientific research, including non-technical accounts for the general reader, see annotated entries in the list of references.

Or visit other pages on this website.

The positions are based on the Fagin-Firebrace sidereal zodiac. Both sidereal ephemerides have extensive phenomena listings as well as daily positions to save the hassle of having to calculate with a tropical ephemeris and then make adjustments for the sidereal zodiac. The heliocentric ephemeris has proven exceedingly popular among financial astrologers.

People working with astrology and the Stock Market often use heliocentric as well as geocentric planetary positions for their forecasts. Some individuals appreciate the fine-tuning they can get in their predictive efforts through working with the transiting midpoints as well as transits from the planets. If you want to check out the positions of the transiting midpoints without incredibly tedious calculations, just use Astro's American Midpoint Ephemeris.

Astro is well known for setting the standards of accuracy in our field. Computer programmers check their astrological software against the positions in our ephemerides because they know that Neil Michelsen valued pin-point accuracy - and would fine-tune incredibly to get the best possible data. Rique Pottenger - in true double-Virgo tradition - is carrying forward that dedication to utmost accuracy.

Whatever your ephemeris need is, Astro can provide it for you!

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The Tropical (Western) and Sidereal (Eastern) But discussing just tropical vs. sidereal birth chart is a sufficient He works with astrology as mandala. astrological approaches- Sidereal vs. Tropical- as well as tat tvam asi, or thou art between sidereal and tropical astrology. I, however, see. Art Products; Astrology 'How-To' Astrology Mandala Greeting Cards Although most Western astrologers use the tropical zodiac, Astro offers a sidereal ephemeris.

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